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Nehal: Today we have David Schloss, how’s it going, David?
David: Appreciate it, everything’s going fantastic
Nehal: Awesome man, good to have you on the podcast. The reason I’ve got David on here is that he launched this one case study that went a little bit viral in our small community. When it comes to internet marketing, where now every person who’s speaking to David is like “I keep seeing your case study, let’s jump on the phone and talk.”
Everyone was talking about it; I’m like I have to share this with my audience as well. The case study is essentially: how to go from someone that is really good at what you do, if you have an expertise or have some scale, and now you actually want to create a business, an education business, to teach other people on how to get the same result that you’re very good at getting.
What David is going to share today is pretty much how to go from scratch in the education business and build that up strictly and primarily from paid advertising to up to three million dollars in 12 short months. That is very impressive not just because of the speed of building it up to three million dollars, but he didn’t spend three million dollars to get there.
He is going to break down, mostly what happened with that business and what were the steps that they took from an advertising standpoint. But also from a follow-up standpoint, product, offer development, strategy, all of that, and then how you can implement that in your own business, especially if you’re doing Facebook advertising and you’re doing it to information and education businesses. So I appreciate you sharing this today man.
David: Yeah, no problem. I’m looking forward to breaking it down, making it easy.
Nehal: So the main thing, I guess, from a starting point, if you can give context to where the client was before you guys got started and how the relationship initially got started when it comes to like you know deciding on doing Facebook ads and what was step number one essentially.
David: Sure! This client first heard about me from a friend of his. He was trying to find a way to take all his knowledge, which he had from his physical product business, where he was already doing multiple seven figures, and he knew his stuff, knew that everything he was doing was maybe not revolutionary, but easy. The way that you set it up it’s self-fulfilling, he doesn’t have to worry about it too often, and it does multiple seven figures, you can’t complain. But he knew that there was a way that he could share this information.
Now, his central issue, in the beginning, was that he saw all these other people doing it too, they have their Shopify course, their Amazon course, their Etsy course, any variation of that, and he at first was very defensive on should I even put out this information. So my entire job, in the beginning, was convincing him as to why. Why do you need to put this out there, where’s your area of genius? And most people, even myself, have had that blockage, where we don’t feel we’re good enough to sell our information, you know I’m a practitioner, I’m a technician, I am in Facebook Ads for nine years now, and I don’t even have a famous course out there.
There’s a guy that may have come out a year ago who’s done a million bucks, and I’m like “what the heck is going on here?” and he did the same thing. So what I saw was myself going: “Oh, I don’t know if I could sell this thing,” and so I used him more of. At first, it was an experiment, but then it became more of “Oh my god! There’s something here!”. There are plenty people out there I’m sure, and maybe even yourself felt that and I said: “I don’t know if I should sell anything that I know or does anyone even want it.”
Nehal: This podcast is like two years in the making cause I was scared, and it’s like I didn’t want to commit and like I got to interview people, and I have to create content and like the lighting isn’t right, like my beard isn’t lined up just dumb things. Because those are excuses and so what was it that helped you get through that and what was it help him that created that confidence to implement.
David: So what I did, I took it into my power, and I bought into six of the most popular e-commerce courses at the time: Amazon, Shopify, all sorts of different variations. I even looked into the software and things of that nature, and I said: “look, this is what’s being produced into this world, and each of these courses has done multiple six, if not multiple seven figures.” And I said, “let me break it down as to what they’re talking about.”
I went through everything; I made a list of like what’s the strong points, how many videos were inside of each course, was as a continuity based membership or was this a one-time gig; if there was software, was it just audience research or was it more to that. I broke all these different things down, and I said: “this is your course!”. If the average course is 20 videos and a research tool, you just need to have 20 videos and a research tool. But that means you’re then everyone else; you’re just like them.
So what do we have to do to be different? And I would break down everything from it, here’s how the branding looks, does it look like something that was built on Fiverr or was it something that looked like they spent ten grand to build out. All these different components, making it easy for him to see that he could do this too. Because what we found out was the average amount of content created was around 30 videos.
But there’s an outlier there, because one course had about 70 videos, and another one had about 15. So we’re seeing where this: some people over deliver, some people might under deliver or we might find that those 15 videos were so content rich, maybe like an hour a piece, that it was overwhelming. And so I was the one that was doing all the dissecting for him, so he wouldn’t have to stress out about it, and I also saw the opportunity.
Nehal: For sure! And part of that process, what you don’t see, just from a person who’s outside, is how many of those people are completing the course or even going through half of it. Just because you have a lot of videos, doesn’t mean that you’re going to, that person is consuming, are you even structuring that content in a way that they’re going to consume it or best you know the purpose of the whole course is get them the result.
That’s fascinating on like what you’re looking for from like a Facebook Ads, and like strategic standpoint, like what were you looking for that you could take away, like elements, to bring into this gentleman’s offer.
David: Yes, so what I was looking for was: what course or what variation of these courses brought in the most value. For example, if one course only had 300 customers and yet they did the most revenue, I was looking at where did they add different items down the chain of command or the purchase of various items where their order value would increase. I saw the one that was selling software, had the least amount of total customers, but the most revenue generated.
I was going “okay, this is interesting” and if anyone’s wondering how I figured this out, it’s straightforward: I asked. I asked because we’re very connected in this space, more often than not these product creators are also our friends and everyone in the IM space, and I’m generalizing here, but we know it, loves to talk about how much they did in a certain point. That’s why I put out a case study. So it’s very easy to go to someone and be like can you just give me an idea of how much you did.
Now, whether or not they fudged numbers or not, is solely based on responsibility and honesty, but let’s say all of them were being truthful. Well, each one of these people would at least give me a broad enough number for me to generalize and go “okay, that’s good to know,” So this one that had a software, did about two and a half million dollars in a little over a year. I’m going “was there a launch?”, “was there affiliates?”, “did you do cold traffic?” and I’m asking all these questions as if they’re my client, but because they’re happy to answer them for me because I’ve done nothing but give them value and build a friendship first, they were willing to share.
The common thread was if you add software, your average order value increases dramatically. It doesn’t have to be introduced in the beginning; it could be done later. If you have a coaching offer, your order value increases even faster, you can go from $1,000 product to selling something that’s $5,000 or $10,000 or whatever it may be, but that’s limited to time. These are different elements I figured out just by having conversations. Thus I created the plan, where we would incorporate all of the components that led to a higher value at the cart.
In the beginning, get your course, maybe down the road will incorporate software and then further down the line, when everything is all automated, you can incorporate coaching.
Nehal: for someone who’s going through this process, and listening to this; they’re like “listen, David, I’m not as cool as you, I don’t have friends in that places. What do I do if I’m in this situation, where I want to know what my competitors are doing, or people are just in my industry, even if they’re complementary products, I haven’t done that yet”. What would you tell them to do so they can get that Intel to make decisions?
David: going back further than just having those relationships, you can go into marketplaces like jvzoo, jvshare, Clickbank. Jvzoo practically gives you the exact amount of revenue, items sold and all that good stuff. You can start there and go “okay, these are all launched based products.” So if I ever decided to go launch, this is what I’m working with, and usually, all those marketplaces are primarily launched based. Clickbank on the other hand, does have more longer-term affiliates, but they don’t give you exact revenue, they just tell you how popular something is.
From there, you can do your research on the popularity of a topic or specific keywords and things of that nature, so they all work together. Let’s use jvzoo as an example; I can go in that marketplace, type in the word “Amazon” and probably find 50 products launched in the last three months. But, 10 or 15 of them, might have sold the most, and out of those 10 or 15. I can go to each of the sales pages, and I could see what the common theme is, are they selling an actual holistic course or a specific strategy, and then jvzoo does reveal revenue generated, Items sold, and average per sale.
You could just do the math, and you could look at it from there and go this a hot topic, is this something that is being launched too heavily, if it’s being launched too often, it’ll die a lot faster. And I just noticed that not many people were doing Amazon, Shopify and something else, they were just doing one or the other.
Nehal: from a market standpoint, that is powerful to know because most people stick to one or the other and they completely ignore the other, and so you can either do just Amazon or just to Shopify. Usually, there isn’t a blend in between, and most people who I speak to are either on one of the other sides, and most people don’t have a Shopify and Amazon store at the same time.
So you created and you did the research, you bought the products, and then you looked at how they structured everything. You have a better idea of not only sales pages, but order processes; how they do onboarding processes for their courses. Then you can see the actual course structure and then you’re seeing offer development of what is going on, whether it’s like pricing, the type of offers they have, the type of deliverables you have, and then see the average order values and finally make a decision.
For anyone who’s listening, I think this is very important because what happens, for a lot of entrepreneurs and marketers, what they’ll end up doing is they’ll say “I want to run Facebook Ads, my business is exactly perfect the way it is, I built it, so I know what works exactly, trust me”. But the reality is that there are a lot of other super smart people, who are doing a lot of super intelligent things, but you’re just not looking enough.
These are a couple of really good ways to skip the learning process a lot, and it goes straight to the answers ideally or has a short list of tests that you can run in your own business. And this is over and over again when it comes to like spending money on Facebook ads, that’s a very tactical and execution based thing, but everything you’re talking about, before paying that dollar, is all strategic.
So how did you decide on like spending so much time doing that before spending a dollar on Facebook?
David: All right! So I’m more of a technician, and at heart or a mechanic as some people may look at it, where it’s I have to put things down on paper or in a mind map and sort of sort it out in a way where it’s like what do we have to build, what needs to be added to this entire equation, what software do we need, like I have to see everything bulleted out before I deploy anything; and even when you look at that total list, it could be three pages long, that last thing is going to be: launch ad campaign.
So there are all sorts of pieces that go into the equation before you ever get to even the strategy portion of an ad, which is a whole different dimension, and you and I know this. But when it comes to the offer, there are too many people who spend hours upon hours upon hours building out this thing, not doing the research on who they’re competing against or who are they complementary too, that’s another thing, and what do they have to build to be just slightly different enough from those people they were analyzing.
They don’t have to do 50 videos because their main competitor did 30, they could do 31 videos, but instead of talking about the foundation, they might talk about tactical stuff, and then involve the basis later or a hybrid of that. And that’s what my job, that’s what I chose to be my job in the beginning, because I wasn’t getting paid for this, this was my way of seeking an opportunity and going “there’s something here, and I could turn this guy into a year over a year client instead of a month over month”, if I can just decipher what he needs to build.
Going through that process, most people are not gonna do that, let’s just be completely honest, they’re not going to buy six products, they’re not going to sit down, spend twenty-five hours of their time going through all this content, breaking it all down, but you know what I did the work and the guy made three million bucks, and of course I made my magic work on that too.
But, you do that, and what you do is you’ve now set yourself up for success in more ways than one, because yes maybe your product fails and people don’t buy it, you now have something that you can structure for perhaps client work and say “I could tell you how to craft an offer based off of all the courses I’ve been through and what I see works”. People are going to buy that, they’re going to want it, and it’s your value proposition, it’s what’s unique for you, and now you can understand how to craft an offer.
As much as I am an advertising specialist, when people come to me now and they say “hey I have a webinar”, they also say “could you also look at my offer”, because they know I’ve been doing the work just like this, and I could tell them this is what you’re missing to add an extra you know thousand dollars per customer onto the back end, things of that nature. And it just allows me to be different than a lot of other advertisers out there, so its multiple pieces to it than one.
Nehal: that experience provides so so much value as that trusted advisor or that person that they can invest in and trust in for an extended period of time because that relationship becomes less transactional and way more strategic, and it’s very similar to a partner relationship because now you’re both invested and there’s a lot deeper level of commitment, where both of you guys have at that point.
From the first thing that I understood is the hardest part or maybe that first domino was actually getting the commitment and building the confidence of the client, so once you got that, then you bought these courses and you start going through it and figured out okay here are the trends that I’m seeing and here’s how to make my decisions. What happened after that.
David: once he decided to create the course, during that period where he was building, I was then doing the audience research, I was suddenly doing the advertising research because creating a course takes time. Even though that this was over the course of a year, so for example when I put out the case study back in November of 2017, we had already worked together for a total of 14 months, but it took him only a month to develop the whole product because that’s all he did.
All he did it was wake up create, create, create, create, many people do that, not often, but this guy went into creation mode, banged out the course in like 10 days and then the remaining portion of the month, he knocked out the funnel; did he build it all himself? No, hired help; but that’s why he was able to do it in, and I think was about 30 or 40 days, because I gave him a checklist of all the stuff he needed, which sped up the whole thing.
While he was doing that, I got audience to research out the way, I start crafting different types of creative that would be deployed later, not the entire thing, not the copy and the video ads and the banner ads or anything like that, it was grabbing what I would consider at the time a swipe file of competition ads, competitors ads and look at what’s unique in the marketplace or maybe even outside markets with ideas that perhaps we can use them in his campaign. Some people might do that in a day; I did this over the course of a month.
By the time he was ready, I had 50 video ads that we could recreate, and all sorts of images and the guy just wanted to do pictures, that’s because I had all this inventory to show him, he was like “now what?” and I already knew what needed to get done, but it’s like I already did the work, you just gotta tell me what you like, and we can only deploy faster. And so he was doing his job, and I was doing mine, but we still do the waiting game, and once he was 100% done with the product, I already had my research out the way, it was all about testing.
That’s where the real fun begins, but it was all about testing at that point.
Nehal: So let’s get into that because I feel there’s so much of that build-up and then, from the commitment, and like you did your work and then he’s doing his job and everyone’s ready, you guys are both anxious and nervous and excited, and then you hit launch; like what happened after that, so what is the launch part look like what kind of budget did you start with and how do you make some of those early decisions.
David: Yeah, the launch part is typically challenging because you have to decide on which lane do you want to take. And what I mean by that is this you have the launch lane, which usually maybe has your email list, your affiliates like there’s a whole portion of things that go into it, multiple parties involved including ads too; then you have the affiliate side of things strictly but we’re not talking about a launch, we’re talking about scheduling out webinars or scheduling out email of promotions that might go one week after another or two weeks apart and it’s more of like a long-term launch.
Whereas a traditional launch is speedy it might be two or three weeks long; this style might be three to six months, on and off promotions. And that works great if you’re committed to your product, and if you have some success maybe the first go-round or the second one, it’s like “Nah, it didn’t quite hit”, third one BAM, everything pops and you’re like “man we had a hundred k promotion”, that’s going to get you excited to do it again and again and again.
Then, the middle lane is, I’ll call it is the hybrid, it’s like we can do a little bit of lunch, a little bit of affiliate stuff and then just go all in with that. But he decided “I’m gonna create a different Lane and just go straight up with that,” “I’m not even gonna talk to people, I don’t want to talk to people, go do your thing.” Very difficult to find that person who doesn’t even want to test with a hot list or maybe someone who’s trusting of me and my recommendations of like “hey we should do an affiliate webinar and just test it out.” “No, ads. just go straight”, when you have someone like that, you know you commit the long term because they know they have to spend money.
So we started out with a ten thousand dollar budget, was this over the course of a month, three months? It was one month. I have one month to get this dialed in. Now, some people are probably thinking about ten thousand, I only have five thousand, you could start with a thousand, you could start with five thousand, will it take longer absolutely, that’s why I would suggest you get an affiliate webinar or you test it out with someone who trusts you and things of that nature.
If you don’t have those people, you need to contact someone like Nehal or myself and be like “how do I work something out with you, where I can get someone to give me a chance” right, like usually what is needed it’s just one chance.
Nehal: just that stage of that business, it sounds like he only has a higher risk tolerance, so he’s ready to spend more money because that feels right for him because not implementing and not getting results fast enough, that’s actually has a considerable opportunity cost or it costs in other ways, where he’s not investing all that other time in creating other parts of his business or back-end monetization strategy or a slew of other things that he could be doing, so instead he likes to shut down for a month, and he said “I’m gonna get this done”, or at least significantly didn’t do other aspects of his business, so he committed to ten thousand.
David: he was willing to make the risk and put the chance into action because he knew of every piece of research I had given to him, everything I dialed in and was like this is what we need to do, I gave him a forecast of profit potential “look guy this is what we have to do, this is what the funnel looks like, if you stick with this, this is what can be built”.
My initial forecast did not even have three million on it; it wasn’t also on there, it was just a million. We’re like we’re just going for a million, and we’ll see what happens, and I built the whole thing, and he trusted in me to deliver on that because he already created everything else, I just had to do the ads. What I didn’t expect was to spend two or three thousand dollars and already have results, because that’s very rare, and you know that with digital product, unless you hit the nail on the head the first try or you hit the first home run at the first at-bat, it doesn’t usually happen that way.
It’s usually more of you might have to re-record the webinar, you might have to change your landing pages, you need to change your ads, and there are all sorts of other variables with which is nothing to be scared about, that’s a part of the business, you have to do that.
We hit it on the head from the start, and it’s because of all that initial research that we had done, we knew what the pain points were from all these other promotions, we knew what the solutions were based off going through their courses because they were saying here are the answers. We mostly just took all these different pain points that these other vendors were talking about and just listed them, “Are you experiencing all these things? Because if you just say yes to one of them, and we write it down on a page, guess what our ads are gonna say that we can help you solve any of these pain points”, and that’s precisely what we did.
So within a couple of thousand dollars, we already had our first sale, which we weren’t breaking even yet, we just had our first sale of a thousand bucks. Automatically, we’re on our way up; if you spent three grand and you already got your first sale, you’re not far off from figuring it out. And you could spend another thousand, get three sales and bam you’re back, you’re in business.
That’s precisely what happened, because once we saw that first purchase come in, we basically became best friends with that person: why did you buy?, what got you to just pay the full pay, not the payment plan?, would you have taken a payment plan if it was done this way? Like we surveyed the hell out of them.
Nehal: And did you do that over the phone or via email?
David: Over the phone
Nehal: that’s smart because what we’ve seen, and if people listening to this, have sold information products before, they know that there’s a natural refund rate. And so even if you get that first sale, it doesn’t mean much until after that 30 days or after whatever period that you’re giving that refund time, that segment because they can do that and pull the trigger at any time.
That call and further customer analysis and developing that avatar like that’s super smart.
David: Yeah, and we made sure to get on the phone with them, one it makes me feel particular, it’s like look we’re giving you one-on-one attention, you didn’t even have to pay for it, we want to call you, we want to ask you questions, and we just want to know whether or not there are things we need to change. Now, of course, we were looking at the surface level at the beginning: what got you to buy? What was it that convinced you that this was the right course for you? What are you looking to achieve and purchasing this course? The standard procedure of questions.
Later on, let’s just say about two and a half weeks later, I followed up personally via email, and I said “have you gone through the course? What are you experiencing as issues in going through the course? Now want to know where did things get a little too tough, maybe they’re too simplified or to fundamental, and you want more advanced information?”, so now I’m digging into the content itself, “and are you even going through the content?”, because I don’t want to create a large client base or customer base of people who never go through the content because that’s a recipe for disaster.
I emailed that person, same individual, customer number one asked him all sorts of questions, thank God they went through the content because their goal was to create a new business, and it was once again the beginning of the year, so they were all gone whole about “2017 is gonna be different”, and they were going through everything. And what I had gathered from that email exchange, was that in going through this content, it was a little too drawn-out; meaning that it wasn’t too short, it wasn’t too long, it was like right in the middle, but there was a lot of things to set up.
Going back to my client, I’m like “how do we make this process easier,” “is there a way that we can go from 10 videos of setting up to 5?”, and cuz long term this is gonna be useful. It’s a quicker result, and that’s what people want when they buy courses, they want an instant effect within the first week to a month that they have access to the course.
Nehal: Right, and so you start spending a little bit of money, so you’re at like two thousand, three thousand, you got your first customer and then now you start doing like these assessments or just these analysis and these calls. What happened after that because a total of four hundred thousand dollars in ad spent is a significant amount for someone who’s never paid that much money. And so what helped you guys like go from there and over like the significant milestones that got you there.
David: he wasn’t scared to spend, but it was more along the lines of he’d never seen accounts spend that much before. Now the great thing is that I had seen accounts like that. And so he trusted in me, how could we take this statement from only spending three or four thousand dollars in a couple of weeks to spend that Navy in a couple of days or even per day. And I had to educate him on that process because Facebook does not like it when you go from spending a hundred to two hundred bucks a day and all the sudden you’re spending four grand. They start monitoring you like you did something wrong it’s like “hey what are you spamming,” it’s like “I’m not spamming anything,” and you get looked at with a microscope.
So I was mostly building out just like I had done with his offer, just like how I’d showed him how to build it out and put everything together, I also built out the forecast of spend because once we had consistent results, for every thousand, we spend, how many customers do we get. If we spend a thousand and we get one customer, we sort of break even, so the goal is to get at least two. And we just kept doing that incrementally, and it went from spending a thousand a week to spending a thousand every 3-4 days. And then it went from that to spending a thousand dollars every two days, to spending a thousand dollars every day.
Over time, if that data held right, from what we saw, for every thousand dollars he just kept telling you “go ahead and increase it.” It got to a point where we start averaging about five sales per thousand dollars spent. This was before we had upsells and software and all sorts of extra bonuses on top that would increase the order value, this was just to get his core training. And once he saw all that, it was the game on.
Nehal: What was the average order value at that point, when you’re getting, because you’re spending a thousand dollars to get five, like what was that average order at that point?
David: it was just a $997 course, and we didn’t have payment options yet, we were just testing out like who can get complete buyers as he like calls them, and what else do we have to include is bonuses into the stack to get them to buy and all sorts of things.
Once we got to the point of having five buyers per thousand, you’re mainly looking at well thousand dollars per buyer, and we’re going “is this is this accurate?” like because it freaked us out, in the beginning, it didn’t make any sense, it’s like we’re getting a purchase for every 200 bucks we spent, like this is this is starting to get a little crazy.
And then he started getting very creative, “all right David remembers that sheet you put together with all the offers that your other competitors and friends are creating? What else do I need to create to make that average order value 1,500 bucks or 2,000 dollars?” So this is valuable because, when people start seeing success, you understand what type of entrepreneur they are.
Nehal: I’m sure you’ve seen this over and over as you’ve been scaling campaigns, it’s like okay I could spend a dollar, and I can make two, what should we do right now. And for us, as media buyers are very simple. But from the client standpoint, you see a lot of different types of reactions. And this kind of response is like the dream client because, not only do they want to spend more, they want to figure out how to increase margins further to not only spend more but do it even more responsibly and comfortably. So that sounds like an ideal situation.
David: Yeah because it got to a point where all he would do is ask me “what else do I need to create?”, Which for any advertising agency, media buyer, freelance advertiser, that is a dream to hear. You get one or two calls a month, or slack or Skype message that says “do you need me for anything?”, That’s very rare that you get that. I saw and living, now the thing is being the type of entrepreneur on myself where it’s like “what else can I do to improve?”, I would then look at the ads and find ways to improve them on my own; he didn’t need to get involved, that’s all me.
But at the same time, I would go to him and say “so-and-so just launched the software, you might want to look into this”, “so-and-so I just did a coaching program, I have a buddy who joined it at 5k, people are joining left and right, you might want to look into this”. And then he became that individual that started doing all that background research and digging in and seeing what everyone else is doing, which now you have a team effort.
And when you’re both on that same page, and one is doing all the creation, and the other one is doing the marketing, it becomes very effortless, especially when you understand your metrics.
Nehal: because you guys were making decisions very clearly based off real numbers instead of gut decisions. And so it sounds like that is almost too good to be true, it’s like “oh shit, what’s gonna break?”, like “what’s gonna happen?” Because it sounds like things were going super well. And so when that’s happening, what were you doing outside Facebook because a lot of people get obsessed about how do I decrease my CPC by another 20%, how do I reduce my CPL or whatever.
But from the whole write down or the breakdown that you did of the case study that we’ll provide for the people who are listening here, what is it that allowed you guys to really make it profitable because it sounds like there’s, between the offer development and some of the other things that you mentioned in on the backend, there are a lot more things that were optimizing and supporting the profitability of that campaign.
David: that’s the pieces such as like the average registration rate, so how many people were registering for the webinar, how much were we spending per day and how much was the acquisition cost of that registration or that attendee or that replay viewer; those are all additional metrics that came after we start spending more and more money. In the beginning, you don’t know that, you got to throw money to a page and see if someone registers and take them down that funnel.
A lot of what comes in between, is more on the media buyers side of things, where it’s I’m creating three variations of an ad, I decide to go all image creative here, I’m going to launch 20 ad sets at 20 bucks a piece, which means about 400 dollars a day, you see how now the advertising mind kicks in: “Oh we have 20 audiences, three ads a piece, I got to optimize the individual ads within the audiences, where is to scale, where’s there no scale”, like those are all mining tasks with significant results, because it takes time to do all that.
I could have launched 500 ad sets in a day and pissed off Facebook, but I didn’t, I had a plan: 20 audiences every couple days, launch them incrementally, monitor the page registration rate, which is an opt-in rate for a lot of people, is it it 40 percent, is it 50?. We held steady in between 40 and 50 percent on an opt-in, which is super high for a webinar. When webinars these days are usually between 25 and 35 percent. And this ran for a year.
So you have to think, when we wrote this copy for this page and when we were writing copy for the ads, we just decided instead of coming up with 5, 10 different variations of this copy, let’s just write long form, every possible pain point and we’re going to provide every possible solution. Because we didn’t want to have to redo this thing over and over and over, we wanted sustainability and efficiency.
So we build out the long form post with all the pain points that people are experiencing in E-COM, and we’re providing those solutions and what we’re going to be unveiling in this webinar and into the future. By doing that one time, we never had to change the ad again. We had three different creatives, that’s it. Everything else is just built off of that.
Nehal: that’s not normal and when you’re doing that level of optimization, not only on the top of the funnel but at the back end event and all the way throughout. There are so many elements, and it sounds like you guys just really hit it on the head and just rode that way.
David: yeah, we rode the wave for mainly a year, and the thing is I do mention in the case study, that I changed creative a couple times. But it wasn’t to the extent of an entirely new set of ads, an entirely new set of audiences. I already had the audience development ready, I just deployed them at specific times; you can create all sorts of variations of viewers, ones with automatic bid, manual bid, desktop versus mobile, automated, only targeting Instagram, only targeting Facebook and you can have the same twenty audiences and turn it into 200 ad sets.
There are all sorts of ways you can make that happen. I developed that already, so all I had to do is switch things on and off. And so once again, a level of commitment to creating something that most people don’t do, I just did it all in advance and went 20 at a time. This is going to take me ten cycles before I finish and by then that’s about it’s about 30 days, that’s going to take us to go through this. But this is all mapped out and planned.
Nehal: what’s next for the business at this point?
David: so this client still running this promotion, decided in the traditional fashion of an entrepreneur “I think it’s time to update some things.” The course was continually being updated, but we gave it a fresher look: we had a newer page that’s in development, newer registration page and development, webinars getting updated because a lot of figures in the webinar are from late 2016 in early 2017, kinda have to change that, and then on top of it it just wants to reformulate the branding, just make it look more polished and well, when you make three million in revenue, you really should just you know kick it up a little bit.
He decided “let’s just give it a fresh face, but let’s just keep doing what we were doing before,” the difference is, instead of trying to spend three grand a day, which at one point was his goal, but I’m just looking for quality. I just want quality people who are gonna do the work, because what we focused on, and then one thing I didn’t touch on in this case study, was in that second set of six months, let’s just called the second half of this promotion, all he focused on was getting his students actually to do the work.
Because they would lower his rate of refunds and on top of that, the more results people get, the more they talk. So it’s like “I made my first thousand dollars and I did it in seven days, I did it through dropshipping. By the way, when I went from dropship into Amazon, we went from making a thousand bucks a week to a thousand a day”. People started to write out their mini-case studies in that fashion: “when I started out it was like this, and then a month later I was doing that, and now six months later I’m doing this.” We couldn’t have asked for a better setup because people just start doing that naturally.
He developed this massive library of just results. So now we only we promote in the same way, but when we do like a retargeting ad or anything like that, it’s like “hear from John and Susie, who have a family of six and have two full-time jobs and are making more in their business and they are in their jobs and they didn’t leave their jobs because they love it”, things like that most people never put the time into, is what exactly he’s been doing.
Nehal: if someone is in that position right now, where either they’re brilliant and they have so many skills and experience in an industry or a type of expertise, what would your advice be to help craft their business really, when it comes to their offer and the Facebook ads if they’re in that situation right now?
David: Right so, I’ll say this first, if you have the thought or even a remote idea of what you want to create and you’ve been itching at doing it, if you are at that point of just going “I have to do this”, that is when you need to start. Cuz there’s a lot of people who say “I have to do this” and then they wait six months and they’re not passionate anymore.
The moment you have just an inkling of an idea of what you want to create, start mapping out or outlining precisely what it is that you know, just put it down on paper. So I like to call this a brain dump, it takes all the stuff from your head and just put it on paper, it’s not the final outline, it’s just what’s there; you want just to get everything out, because you’re assuming that that’s what people want, you’re just assuming.
Get everything down on paper and then you go back and do what I did, which is you can either buy some courses and go through your competitors’ stuff and see what they did. Or if you want to go through like Udemy, where they have all these different outlines of what people are putting in their courses, just reverse engineer what other people’s frames are like, and incorporate it with your stuff, and out those headlines or the topics as if they were headlines. Instead of saying “Facebook ad fundamentals”, which is how you and I would typically think, we also know that the reverse of that is “the 10 things you need to incorporate in your ads before ever launching an ad into the marketplace”, and then in parentheses (this will save you 300 percent on your money).
But the point is like that gets you excited it also gets people to go through the content. So you start writing out your topics as if they are headlines because now you could start thinking like a marketer and when you’re creating this content, you’re also looking at how can I get people and treat into one and go through this stuff.
That’s level one for me, it’s just getting it down to where you’re still passionate, and it’s on paper, you see it, and you’re still excited to create. If you’re not excited when you map this out, and you realize you have 50 videos to form, don’t even do it because you’re going to ask the whole thing, so don’t even do it.
Everything’s on paper; this is one of two ways, you either go and talk to someone who’s done this before; that you know, that can that could shortcut you by a mile. Again, give you a lot of leeways, but also a lot of clarity on what needs to get done next, which is usually going to be creating your offer, creating your funnel and all these other things, which most people start to panic about. Because it’s a lot of stuff, you got to develop.
Or if you already have an idea, like I know I need to build a funnel, I know I need a webinar, I know I need all these pieces, it’s where could I outsource different pieces of this equation so that I could focus on what I’m good at. Like I know I can create PowerPoint slides, I know I can create a webinar, I hate building funnels, so I’m going to go hire someone to make a funnel and so that’s the next piece that I find most people get stuck, and that’s where you should put some attention. It’s where can I outsource different components of this entire process, and it speeds up the whole thing.
Nehal: depending on where people are, the next step of that would be, if you’re already at a break-even campaign or where the weakness might be the actual advertising part. You need someone with experience; I think it does make sense for to bring in an expert because, if everything else is already set up, the only thing you’re missing at that point, is just the traffic.
So if someone is looking for in that same situation, where they have an information product, or they have a coaching offer, what’s the best way to get a hold of you and start that conversation.
David: sure, so if you want to get a hold of me, whether it’s about ad management, consulting, mentorship; you can reach me in two places: you can email me direct, I see everything, you don’t have to worry about going through twenty filters, I see it.
Or you just go straight to my Facebook page, goes right to my profile and you send me a message; I check my other inbox, I see at all. So if you ever have this belief or it’s like “I’m stuck,” “I don’t know where to go,” “I don’t know if I create this,” “is it even worth it,” let me know, and I’ll take a look.
Well, I take a look at your entire course? No, but at least give me an idea of what it is you’re promoting. Because I see tons of stuff, I see tons of offers every day, I run all sorts of accounts, and so I might have something already that could speed up the process for you or maybe gives you an upper edge over someone else that you’re competing against that perhaps I know personally. That’s how you can reach me, and I can give you some help.
Nehal: the reason I brought David on here is that like he knows his stuff, and he’s not like a fly-by-night Facebook advertiser, didn’t just pick up a course and read it, and it’s talking about this thing. He’s doing it. What we’ll do is, for anyone who’s listening, if they can go to, we’ll make sure to get them the full case study; so they can see the full details that you have there, that we didn’t have the opportunity to go through on this podcast.
So I appreciate you taking the time David and all the best men, looking forward to hearing what the next step of business is.
David: my pleasure man thanks again[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][/vc_row][vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” overlay_strength=”0.3″][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” width=”1/1″ tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][/vc_column][/vc_row]