Nehal: Hi, this is Nehal and today I’m here with Nazim from Regent black belt and today we’re going to talk about a case study of one of the clients that he took from about 20 k a month to over 200 k per month in less than 15 months. How’s it going Nazim?
Nazim: I’m good, man. Real nice talking to you and thanks for having me.
Nehal: It’s funny how all the whole industry works when it comes to Facebook advertising. There is a lot of people who have a scarcity mentality and Nazim and I are working together on client transition and stuff. We started to talk and we said- man, why don’t we just go deeper and I shed about what other cool stuff you’re working on. I believe in abundance and there is a lot of business to go around for all of these agencies and obviously, they’re growing so that’s how Nazim and I got connected, and so here we are and I’m glad we’ve got the chance to do this, man.
Nazim: Also, man. When you send me a friend invite to your page I was expecting the usual stuff and I said- hey, man this is going breakdown at scores and the scorecard method you explained on the whiteboard and some of the things that you explained that we`re using and I thought – yeah, he’s going deep in the marketing stuff. It was instant respect and I’m really glad we connected.
Nehal: Likewise. So that’s why when you mentioned your case study I said ok, let’s jump in. If you think in the context of what happened in terms of the after, of the overall results, we could go into the initial stages because going from 20K a month to 100K a month is a big milestone in itself, but that’s where most people get comfortable or settle or don’t want to push further but you guys were able to go from 100 to over 200K per month and there is something to be said about that not only from the technical and tactful standpoint but from the strategic and psychological standpoint, how you guys were approaching the business and why you were doing so. In a nutshell, what is the business and how you were able to scale it? In a nutshell, then we can go deep.
Nazim: Me and Vanessa, Vanessa’s a consistent client, connected through mutual connections and I was recommended as a Facebook ad person and at the time she was trying to grow her coaching business and she had a product, a 997 product. Her goal was to really automate her business and make a decent six-figure living out of it. We built a funnel and we ran it and then $997 product didn’t work that well. Also, at that time she was introduced by someone to the world of high-tech coaching. She realised- hey, I’ve been coaching people for all of my life,she has thick skin in the game, she’s been around, she basically built a high ticket coaching program for her business and she was charging a 5,6, $7,000 for it so we went ahead and built a funnel for that. It’s a webinar funnel where people basically see an add on Facebook, go to a landing page and there is a webinar site on that page, then they watch a webinar, they book a consultation call and then if it’s a good fit for my client and the lead, they get to work together, all right. They get involved in her high ticket coaching program which has the elements of video coaching in there so like a membership site plus weekly calls, as well. We basically took that from the level where she was making 20K then we kind of grew it to 200K plus now. Obviously, there were specific stages and specific obstacles we had to overcome to really get to that level and that’s what we can discuss.
Nehal: What is that she does for the N client, what’s the result?
Nazim: She basically works with people like therapists, healers and people like that. She helps them get their marketing down. She teaches what she does and that is high ticket sales and she helps them enroll their high tickets clients into their programs because a common problem in the marketplace she is serving is that they’re slaving away at an hourly pay model which sucks and she basically helps them to really look at their gifts and package their results in the way where they can earn a decent living, earn what they deserve by commanding decent prices, commanding what they deserve from their clients.
Nehal: Why do you think people decide to work with her because there are a lot of “high tickets coaches “? There is a lot of different things that people want from those coaches. Some of them want to focus on sales, some of them want to focus on marketing, avatars, psychology…Why do you think people choose her?
Nazim: They choose her because she really has been that person, she has been a massage therapist, she’s been there and the program is really designed in a way where it is very user friendly, we really don’t pretend to be gurus, we don’t throw geeky words around like we are gonna do… It’s a very common sense way of teaching marketing, very down to earth, in a way. It’s tailored for people who don’t know, who don’t have a deep knowledge of marketing.
Nehal: Perfect. If you could take like a snapshot of where the business was at 20000 a month, what was going on in the business, like how was the business running at that point without giving away any kind sensitive details but essentially how the business was growing. I’m assuming you were still primarily based on ads, what were the offers, things like that, then after that we can go into what changed, what about the scales out.
Nazim: At that stage we were just getting started building the funnel and launching the ads and obviously, like launching any funnel there is a trial and error process to that so there was a lot of testing different add copies, different creatives and the biggest goal at that stage, it’s called stage one, to really get to know the customer and get to know the language the customer is speaking. We were doing a lot of testing,obviously, marketing is testing. A lot of things didn’t work but what we can discuss on this call like a few things that we did that allowed us to kind of start speaking customers language. Using them the customers just started loving on the ads and that really is something that got us to that 60- 70K level. And there was another obstacle and then we went to 20K.
Nehal: When you are giving 20K, is it primarily organic, is it a little bit of ads, how was that?
Nazim: That’s a great question. At the 20K level, it was primarily organic for her because she was doing a lot of 1 on 1 coaching but it wasn’t quite packaged in a way we could scale with it so I got on board in we tried to promote it, this $997 which wasn’t quite working. She was making decent money like 15- 20 grand a month with her own coaching. We were selling the 997 product but not at that level where we could scale it profitably and it wasn’t too much in demand. The 20K- 15K she was making, 70% of that was pretty much organically generated clients.
Nehal: That’s a great position to be in. I think it’s a big challenge for a lot of entrepreneurs, especially, they’re posting in Facebook groups, they’re doing presentations or they are just being themselves, they are just getting their word out, referrals are coming in, all this organic stuff is happening, but then it gets very tiring and if something happens in the business when you start making 5000 a month,or something like that you start going 20- 30000 a month and then the business starts breaking because you have very inconsistent months because of going up and down, you can’t control your leads, you can’t control your sales, so that initial stage whether the entrepreneur does it themselves or get their team to do it or hire an agency, it’s a very confusing time, especially when there is I don’t know anything about any of my advertising, I have no idea what’s going to work, I just keep in these Facebook groups everybody else is doing 100Ks a month, there is something wrong with me. What is it that you guys were doing in the beginning stage with 999, 997 course? How did you make decisions like stop or I should be running away from that?
Nazim: The problem with these group is that, there was a saying, someone said that, I actually overheard on a Facebook live that’s really good,there are always certain outliers for anything and they kind of perpetuate the myth that this thing is working where in reality it works for 1 out of a 100 people. The same thing we can notice with e.com, I’m not saying that e.com sales doesn’t work but we both know people and we know that only specific amount of people actually succeed with that, so what can work for one person doesn’t mean that it’s gonna work for the majority. You have to find whatever fits you.
Nehal: We’re doing primary information products, education companies, application, webinars, things like that…One of the clients we’re working on is an outlier, from our standpoint not only from our normal clients, but e.com, they have figured out from cold advertising standpoint on how to be 2x profitable on products on cold on day zero so that means they’re going to spend money on a daily basis they’re actually going 2x on their money upfront. This is a product that you take over and over again so from an advertising and growth standpoint usually people are willing to lose 50% , if they’re spending a dollar they’re happy getting fifty cents, these guys are getting 2x, $2 and it’s a recurring product. There is work that got them there. It’s a great position to be in but that’s not for most people. From your standpoint, when you’re doing the advertising in the beginning there is so many things that you don’t know, what to look at or what to optimise for. How did you know that now is the time to stop? It’s admirable that we’re trying and we’re investing,but at this point it’s not cute, it’s just where we’re done. How do you make a decision of saying No?
Nazim: Yeah, I wish I had a specific number, amount of money you should lose before starting but I don’t. It’s very subjective. I think at 2 months point I would say that,you know after trying something for 2 months you’re not getting even remotely that kind of results you want to have in business. More importantly, if you don’t see how you can improve more,the lack of results you’re getting, if you don’t know how to improve it, if you have no clue. You have consulted the people, you have spoken with people but it’s still not working then probably there is a product to market mismatch. I’m really glad that you’re so honest and so open about the fact that you know the whole 2 times, I don’t wanna whine all that stuff, those are outliers and that’s amazing that they exist. You have to think realistically,be realistic and not compare yourself to people who are doing particularly amazing. You have to be willing to be like them, but you have to be real.
Nehal: Got it. And the other thing is you have to know who’s lying in those groups as well. You have to know people’s intentions. There is a lot of people who are just trying to sell coaching programs. Anyways, once that happens , when you guys are in a place where that it’s not working. What happened at that 2 month mark? I’m sure you’re spending money,there is like frustration, I’m sure emotionally, internally you’re trying to figure out is it me, what am I doing wrong from their standpoint, trying to figure out what we’re doing next. What was the next step after you guys said we gotta change stuff here?
Nazim: Story time… Let me tell you a little story. I’m going to start telling you the story. When we transitioned from the product to the coaching, it was client-based for starting the program, high ticket sales. The thing is, even when we started promoting this product we’re doing now, at the beginning stages we were, let’s say, unsuccessful. It was all me, I blamed it all on myself. It was a Sunday morning and I packed my notebook and I went to the coed space where I would go back at that day and I was thinking to myself like, I looked at the ads and the conversion of the landing page, it wasn’t bad, it was like 15- 18% but the CTR was low on the cost, click was high and I was thinking to myself what am I doing wrong because I wrote the ads and then my client she looked at them and she was like-yeah, it kind of sounds like me. Obviously, she tailored it to her flavour, to her language, but it was still not working. At the time I was also reading one of the articles and it basically said something along the lines of- if you see a marketer who’s not studying his audience, run away from that marketer. I said alright, cool, I don’t want to be that marketer basically and what came to my head was that all clients we enrolled into the program,we would have them run through a questionnaire. The client she had thick skin in the game and she worked already with 50- 60 clients at the time. She’s been doing it for years now. I open the questionnaire, and I spent no lunch, no nothing, just some lemonade and I spent the next 3 hours or so running through them. As I was running through them I was like -oh, my God, how come we are not running these things in the ad and I literally opened up a Word document and started copy pasting, copy pasting. I copy pasted like 15 pages, worth of literally lines where they talked about their problems, their pains, motivations. Then I started incorporating those in the ad and this is where it was like boom, from 1% to 3% ,like real quick. That was like the breakthrough.
Nehal: For people who might not know 1% isn’t very good on a click through rate. Obviously, I’ve seen some of your ads now and they get 10% click through rates for one of the accounts we were looking at and that’s phenomenal for overall engagement in 3- 4% on the actual click through and that is because of the some of the nuances that you got really good at in terms of a photo.If the photo of the man, if it’s a relationship offer for example,of a man looking at the woman, is it the woman looking at the man in terms of aspirationally, is it out of pain, is it out of disgust, is it out of valour,is it out of euphoria, interest, curiosity like there so many different ways that you can take that scene image from stock photo sites or you’re taking it yourself. How you’re choosing images is so valuable and of course, if people are giving you data in specific instructions, on how to sell them is just priceless.
Nazim: I gotta give you credit for the client, where she communicated really well with me by saying -hey, Nazim, these are the kind of pictures I noticed that our clients like. I saw that you started promoting, the thing is that we as marketers, you Nehal and me, we do our job amazingly, but we still have, I believe and I’m sure you’ll agree, to keep close communication with the client and listen to the clients very attentively because they ultimately have the experience of working with their audience so if the client says- hey, I don’t think this image represents my brand or or audience then, obviously, you analyse data because sometimes it might be over exaggerated, but a lot of times also it’s a very important comment and you should take it and improve the ads.
Nehal: Yeah, sure. I think this is very important from an entrepreneur standpoint as I speak to many of them or even if you are a Marketing manager in a bigger organisation,if you have a budget, the responsibility isn’t to fix all problems throughout the whole funnel. The best relationships we’ve had with clients, the best relationships we’ve had internally have always been a tag team, have always been that you are a part of a team and if you are in a situation where the expectation is beneath the media wire, and someone on the team is figuring out and it’s not working and you’ve been trying it for a while it’s now time to take responsibility because they’re not going to solve all of your problems and even though you can provide a lot of coaching (19:19 min) to them they need your support.What we learn from agency standpoint, we are the platform you know ,we have expertise on the platform but the client always has infinite domain expertise that we just can’t replace. We’re not gonna get that by being on few calls or learning or reading a few books. What they do is after hundreds of hours, thousands of hours of actual implementation in the trenches so we can just speed that up by getting way better at extracting that information at them. I think that’s part of the relationship you have with the client.
Nazim:Yeah, absolutely. I agree with every word you say.
Nehal: Now you made a decision and found this gold that was just sitting there, that just got revealed to you. I’m sure you had this moment of heavenly music playing in the background, you know feeling like in The Matrix, all this stuff happening. Now it’s clicking,now I’ve got something, I feel I have something, you start testing. What was the main first point when it started connecting from 20K and now it’s 30-40?
Nazim: Let me give the audience and those who are listening a little pro tip.One combination of the ad copy that made it really work with the audience was this, I basically looked at the section where they were complaining about their problems and I basically took all of the statements they made there and then I worked on creating five powerful questions I could open the ad copy with. All of the ad copies we ran were question oriented. We would open that ad copy, that ad with a very powerful painful question that was basically taken out of their mouth and that was really good. That’s what really worked because we ran and still run a lot of traffic on mobile and the first two chapters they see without having to click on more,if those were some powerful questions, if it grabs their attention, they have to click more.
Nehal: I think when people hear about copy frameworks or copy structures the first thing is like step one-put a question, step two- make an introduction. A lot of times when people see the question they are just asking- are you a healer that just wants to grow their business? That might not even hit a thing that actually resonates with the audience, so, why do you think your questions worked?
Nazim: Again, because it’s all about speaking the language of the audience and I overheard this thing that says the best copies are written by your clients. To be fair with you, actually, you almost made me feel bad because- are you healer who wants to grow their business?- that copy actually worked as well,decently, but others as well. You can’t just run this variation, you have to mix it up. That’s what we also learned by looking at the best marketers they mix things up.
Nehal: With all of my copy, with all we do, we tried very embarrassing stuff that this is just not going to work at all,and ends up working, simple things like that Or we tried very ninja stuff that were like- trust me, I know my stuff, man, I spent a lot of money, just trust me, I got you, and we got our butts handed by Facebook.
Nazim: Let me ask you, when you are launching the ads do you ever have a few ads that you like that you kind of fall in love with? They underperform and you hate to turn them off.
Nehal: Every single time I feel internally like- ok, I created a bunch of ads and the team created a bunch of ads, then I jumped in into a handful of ads, make them a little bit nicer and almost always they are the ones that bum. At this point I let them run and I try not to get emotionally involved with any of them. At the end of the day I usually have copies that I am betting on and copy them for sure.
Nazim: You have to stay cold-blooded in this ads game, man.
Nehal: The thing is, as soon as you fall in love with any of your work, it’s kind of game over because you try to massage the copy or you try to massage an angle or even triple an offer, lead mega offer but a lot of the times the market just says I don’t care and I think that’s kind of what was happening to you guys at initial stages, until you were making a bunch of decisions and it sounds like even though you guys didn’t change the whole business significantly, what you just did was just say- Ok, maybe we are just not explaining, communicating or connecting with you guys the way that you want to get and feel connected to, so, what is it that we can say differently and that’s where it sounds like you guys started testing messaging that they provided you on how to sell them.
Nazim: You’re absolutely right. To touch on the point of being creative and put all those things analytical, the way I would say that running ads or even doing marketing is a fun game with very serious rules, meaning you got to be creative to really grab your audience attention, but when it comes to actually cutting out what doesn’t work and scaling what works, you have to be very calculated killer, you have to abide KPI’s and eradicate emotions. I’m making it sound too dramatic but that’s it.
Nehal: For people who might not have experience with that, it sounds maybe over the top, but the reality is different. As soon as you get emotionally involved with any of your casting or decision making process, the whole thing becomes difficult especially if you are manager or entrepreneur working with your client as emotional or more. I definitely hear you. When it comes to that connection as soon as you started testing the nuances of the advertising what happened next?
Nazim: As soon as we started testing and we started discovering the ads that were working well, we managed to scale them to a level where now we’re making 50, 60, 70K a month, a lot of people would stop, but the thing is the client was an A player, still is an A player, we still work together and I love her dearly, and she says- I don’t care, let’s go 100, 150K, 200, 500K a month. That’s her goal and we’re still on that journey with no destination just moving up and up, but there was a different problem now. It wasn’t the ad but the whole funnel started being important now for the success.
Nehal: What was the difference in the advertising and how much money were you spending when it comes to the initial stages when you started testing and then what happened when you started running into the next problem?
Nazim: To tell you the amount specifically, let’s say we started with a few $100, $100-$200. They were testing a lot of stuff.We were doing a little targeting and primarily spending money on let’s say 90% of the ad we were spending on a really trying to: number one- discover the right audiences until we had a very solid look alike, number two- discovering the ad creatives, images,videos, testing those as well, number three- obviously, the copy variations. We are really trying to not overspend until we had a proven ad variation or variations we could scale. As soon as we discovered them, we scaled to $700- $800 a day level, something around that..
Nehal: Do you remember what your recurrent on ad spent was before you got to the next challenge which was the funnel, approximately?
Nazim: Like a monthly figure? I would say like 10 to 15 grand. At the point we were making like 70-75K, roughly speaking.
Nehal: Got it. It’s important because what happens is just when you initially are starting with advertising I like when you have only $100 a day or $50 a day. It is in the motion of figuring things out, but when it does connect it looks like you guys started spending money relatively quickly when it comes to spending from $100 a day to $700 a day just so that you could get results faster and see that momentum and then you face the next level of challenges, right?
Nazim: Yeah, exactly, absolutely. As soon as we hit that milestone of 50-60K a month or maybe even 70, another set of obstacles came into the picture, and we can talk about that.
Nehal: I think this is important from like a journey standpoint. As soon as you think all my problems are gone because I figured out copy and I’m so smart,naturally, there is going to be a next challenge. For you guys, what does it mean that there was a funnel challenge for you?
Nazim: Let me remind you again what I really appreciate about you Nehal. You’re not the guy who thinks only Facebook ads, even in the video that you recorded and I watched. You clearly talked about the importance of the offer, the landing page conversions, the ad, everything, so you understand the importance of the whole thing coming together for things to work out. I can talk about the specifics of the webinar funnel and maybe I can tell you how I troubleshooted. Basically, like in most funnels, including the webinar funnel ,if this is the funnel there are certain points where conversions happen, where a person has to go from one page to another, from one stage to another. Usually it’s clicking on the ad, signing up on the landing page, then visiting the thank you page and waiting in that wait room to become an attendee and after that Webinar converting that person into application Then the sales team getting that person actually on the call because surprise, surprise, most of the people who book, not most ,but a good amount, are either disqualified or they do not show up on calls and then sales team closes them. You can see lots of things you have to stay on top of for a really things to start working out. One of the things we started working on is obviously the landing page. We took the conversion rate from about 12 percentish to 20% and that immediately slashed our CPL, allowed us to have twice as many attendees on the webinar, twice as many eyeballs so more people could apply, so that was the first thing.
Nehal: Was CPL the main issue at this stage of the business?
Nazim: It’s a great question. It was at the point where it was $15 or so, and we basically set a certain amount of money where we wanted to spend everything. Even today we spent two grand on ads and we don’t want to scale above it. We want to squeeze out everything possible from the 2 grand before moving to let’s say 2500 or 3 grand. At that point, as well, we didn’t want to scale further until we really explored all of our optionso of improvement. CPL stood out the most to me because I knew that we could really reduce it down to below $10 mark. Improving the landing page was really the first time that we overcame the first obstacle. The second one was making sure that as many people as possible attended the webinar. We started from the point where 50 maybe 55 % attendees, which is still decent ,right, show up rate on an evergreen webinar, but we are at 80- 85% now. There are a few things that we changed on the thank you page and the biggest one was something that not a lot of people do on a webinar funnels specialist-adding a video, so we have the client get in front of the camera and give a 30 maybe 60 seconds video saying- hey, this is me, thank you for signing up to my webinar and in a couple of minutes you will be directed to a training session where I’ll be showing you how to
x y z and also I will give you a free pdf if you stay until the end. My client, the expert appears in front of them, welcomes them and that kind of entices them to really actually watch the webinar, you know what I mean.
Nehal: I listen to a lot of podcasts, I go through a lot of education and if you’re listening to this or watching this right now, I want you to like stop for a second then think about what he just said especially if you’re doing an evergreen webinar or you are doing a webinar sequence you might have heard to do a video like that, but what he just explained is-here is the video I’m doing, here’s the exact script or approximately of what I’m implementing, it was a big element of how I went from 55% show up rate to 80%. The reason I’m stopping him now is are you actually doing that? You might have heard about that, you might know the importance of doing that, but are you actually doing that? We were going through one of the accounts of one of our client`s webinars today, and when we looked through it had the generic ever webinar video in there. Something happened where it didn’t get transferred over and that’s obviously going to Influence people showing up significantly or getting them excited. The reason I want to emphasize this is because it might not sound like a crazy ninja hat or anything like that but if you’re not doing that you’re not going to see the results. So if you’re watching this on YouTube or listen to the audio, go back right down to the script of that video so you can send it to your client or do it yourself depending on what your role is and let us know what happened with the script.
Nazim: Thanks for the call to action,man. I really appreciate you having me on the podcast and motivating people to make these changes not only to give them this awesome info, but also prompt them to take action. Listen to Nehal and implement because implementation is the only thing that counts. So that was the next step really increasing the attendance rate and after that it was really improving the Webinar. I can give you a few tips on the webinar as well. Also, I don’t claim to be a copywriting expert or a webinar expert,there are plenty of those out there, but from my experience running dozens of webinar funnels we noticed that adding actual video testimonials in the webinar is super effective like you know how people say- hey, look at Jenny, picture of Jenny, Jenny is this and that, but actually talking about journey and then right in the middle of the webinar slapping the video of Jenny talking about results,first of all it’s pattern interrupt, interrupts people’s patterns,that’s number one and number two it’s personal.The currency these days is personal. They get to see Jenny`s life and it’s also something that has to do with the audio, audio-visual that impacts the trust element.
Nehal: I don’t do that with any of our webinars. are you doing that at a specific stage or you’re doing that at the beginning stages are you doing that at the end, what do you suggest?
Nazim: I usually do one in the middle and then one in the end, closer to the end because I know that a lot of people give show testimonials closer to the end.Whenever you’re showing testimonials you can put those in.
Nehal: How long is that testimonial usually?
Nazim: A very good question, anywhere from 30 seconds to 60 seconds.People are there to listen to the experts but 30 to 60 seconds. I’m not saying that this is a guarantee to improve the conversions but this is something you could try.
Nehal: This is perfect. I`ll let you know what happens.
Nazim: Cool. Let me see if I have a few more webinar tips. Nothing that comes to my mind specifically, but it was also, let me tell you actually the most important thing you can do on the webinar. That is to qualify people hard before getting them on the call, to qualify the heck out of people. This was one of the biggest problems where we kind of we didn’t qualify them enough, we left the gates open and that caused a lot of unqualified people on the call. That’s amazing when you’re getting an application a day through your funnel but not so amazing but not so amazing when you’re getting 15, you have to be ready for those 15,right? You gotta be closing leads but you can’t because the leads are not of a good quality.Have you had that issue with a client?
Nehal: Yeah, for sure, and a big part of that is if we say the price or not and how we position a price without ever saying it. I’m sure other people who are listening to this are like- I don’t even know if I’m qualifying or if I’m qualifying hard enough. How do people know if they are not?
Nazim: It’s a good question. An exercise I usually have my clients do is super simple.They’ve got a piece of paper and a pen and they really write about their ideal client and then try to put bullet points what they need to have in their business or where they need to be in life to qualify.
To be honest here, at the end of the day, 80% comes down to money,the person having financial resources to allow the thing. At least with high ticket coaching stuff, I’ve found that that’s the case, you have to qualify people for the fine power. It is a simple as saying- hey, if you’re just starting out your business and you haven’t had your first few clients then,sorry but this is not for you. You’re very welcome to check out our YouTube page where you’re gonna get amazing tips and advice about how to generate your first solid income business by landing clients but this is a more sophisticated product, of course, for people who are already…You’re trying to be settled, to be nice.
Nehal: I know from the initial stages this is so counterintuitive, I think this is why some people always get stuck which is when you start in the initial stages I will do anything to get a deal, I will do anything to close my next customer, just so I can pay for my advertising, just so I can keep things going. It becomes a challenge because you’re not disqualifying them,eventually everyone just disqualifies themselves and says I’m not interested because you’re not saying this is not a lead or this is not exclusive, this is not for everyone or making it very clear that this is something that different.. For what you’re saying is that when you go through the process of what is it that the client actually wants of their ideal client writing those bullet points that becomes how do I integrate those into the webinar, is that right?
Nazim: Yeah, you nailed it, absolutely. That’s what it is. Testimonials and just qualifying people,doing the qualifying on the webinar is significantly going to improve the conversion rate as well, the sales team because now they’re getting to qualify people. Their morale, I realised the importance of keeping up the morale of the sales team. The sales team is a huge part of any funnell that is not selling a product on the webinar, a huge part.
Nehal: Post webinar, when they actually watch the webinar is there anything that helps increase the conversion rate or is there anything that supported that person to convert to set to a higher level?
Nazim: You mean like in terms of free targeting or…?
Nehal: Just post webinars, after they see the webinar.
Nazim: Got it, cool. First of, we`re are using self seminar primarily, but I think other apps also have that functionality. Set an automatic redirect at the end of the webinar on the booking page, that’s number one, and number two, obviously, work and master your buyer sequence or applicant sequence and make sure it only goes out to people who attend the webinar. You can create a tag in your webinar software and integrate it with your email marketing software, so that sequence only goes to the people who have watched the webinar. Otherwise, if it goes to the people who didn’t watch the webinar. They may end signing up but they will not know what the service is about, they haven’t gone through the qualifying,not a good lead so really the email sequence remarketing. We used to do a lot of Facebook remarketing. I would love to sit with you at some point to really talk remarketing with you as well because I know you do e.com and the products sales, and I think remarketing there, you guys take it to a whole new level so I would love to learn from you.
Nehal: Got it. Just to make sure I understood what happened in this stage. So 20K is just switching the offer, changing the approach in terms of what’s being sold, how it’s being sold and then it hit and went from $100 a day to $700 approximately and at that point you’re getting 70K. You’re saying now we have to go deeper into the funnel because things were working but we want to squeeze more out of it. In order to do that we have to optimise the overall cost fairlead, getting people to show up more, getting people to I’m sure there is elements you were doing for people to stay longer when they actually saw the offer testimonials and all of that and then remarketing email segmentation just so you can segment them further to attract the right people to get their messaging to apply and eventually buy it. I know for people who might be listening that sounds like a lot- I don’t know how to do majority of that and what would be your advice to them because It does sound like a lot of moving parts? You and I know it’s not as much as it sounds, it just takes time and thinking and learning, but from your standpoint how would you say they should focus on first and how they should go about troubleshooting that?
Nazim: First, I would really focus on figuring out your offer and writing decent ad copy for that and then making your ads worth. That’s the first step, naturally. The second step is making sure your webinar works. If your ad or ads are decent, which is not so hard to write, people over complicate it. If you know your audience, just write whatever’s on your mind and give them call to action and add some scarcity there and there you go. 7 out of 10, but it still works, it gets you a lead. You work on the webinar and really educate them there, Provide enough social proof, provide enough content, give enough testimonials so they actually sign up. Once you have these two you’re going to make decent money.Then you can actually start bringing experts on board, sales team, all those people to help you figure out the other stuff.
Nehal: A good part of this process is just be careful that you’re not biasing yourself. If you are going through these numbers and we haven’t started talking about tracking yet and I know that`s a big part of what you do. When you were going through this, the thing that I was looking for is that is there a chance that I’m lying to myself in this process. Do I believe in the cost fair play ticket, do I believe in the lead numbers, do I believe in market show apps, do I believe in cost fair applications and their conversion rates? Do I believe in the numbers because I’m going to make all my decisions based off on that? If I don’t believe in those numbers, it’s going to be a little bit challenging. Even now looking at the numbers is like a different challenge, it has nothing to do with Facebook advertising, it has everything to do with how you’re approaching the business, and the potential like past element, you know, experiences in your life. When it comes to how to make decisions on everything from implementation standpoint like what do I actually focus on, how do I organise, majority are priorities and then go deeper into that. Now you go from 20 to a 100K, what needs to happen to businesses especially as you go from a 100 to 250K?
Nazim: That’s when the tracking comes into play like you said. You start really attentively looking at data every day. The data for the webinar funnel divides into 3 parts: Facebook ad campaigns (and that involves basically leads and cost fair leads,if you’re getting leads for the Facebook ads that’s it, we’re done), number 2 is how the funnel converts and that basically entails the attendance rate and webinar conversion rate and then there is sales team performance, your sales performance. We also had a tracking sheet that would track our amount spent, how many applications we had, like at what percentage the sales team closed, and what’s the ROI. At each call we would meet every week at a certain time we would calculate everything for the last 7 days and look at the ROI and then compare it with other weeks ROIs and see if it’s going up or down, we would have our benchmarks.. The ROI I personally go after is 6.0, I’m happy to see in a webinar funnel. If we are shy from reaching the 6.0, we have to look at the stats and sometimes it’s just the sales team performance, sometimes it’s the ads, sometimes it’s the webinar conversion rate. From my experience, to be honest with you, the biggest like Ryan Deiss says you don’t have a sales problem you have a conversions problem so a lot of times its either the webinar that converts not so well or the sales team performance. You have to keep up their morale. That’s from my experience.
Nehal: From your tracking how frequently are you doing that? I think you are tracking your numbers relatively frequently, you’re doing them on a weekly basis, right?
Nazim: I review them on a daily basis, but the client reviews them on a weekly basis. There is no reason to do the overall ROI metric on a daily or a weekly basis but as far as registration, cost fairlead, cost fair acquisition goes, we do that on a daily basis.
Nehal: I know at that point now you’re going through optimising different parts of the funnel process and then of course you’re doing deeper levels of tracking, what in your actions had to change when it comes to from an advertising standpoint,going from 100 to 250 because that’s not just-ok,I’m going to increase budget on my ads. What do you need to change from an entrepreneur or a business standpoint?
Nazim: I’ll start with the business standpoint. I’m repeating myself but you really have to know your numbers, especially when it goes to 100K level because 100K that’s great but you will probably start adding more people on payroll, hiring more experts, paying. We managed sometimes 2K-3K a day, but then I think to myself- God, that $60,000 a month through Facebook, right? Taken away from your bank account, that’s a lot of money so you really have to track everything, really be awesome with tracking. I mean, I don’t know investing in a bookkeeper, that`s as far as the business stuff goes. As far as Facebook ads go, then you should really triple down on your retargeting because at that level where you spend that much money, at that point your marketing funnel is like a hand, your ads like sand, a lot of things goes and pours down, so you really want to put the retargeting hand here as well to retain as much as possible.
Nehal: Cool. I knew from some of our clients as soon as they start hitting those type of numbers, what ends up happening is they need to know what their actual cash flow situation is. There is a big difference between like selling 100000 vs collecting 100000. How many of those people are actually going to continue to pay those payments,how many of those people are not going to make another payment again. Is that integrated in your overall revenue, profitability because there is so much of the financial part? I can relate to that from an approach to money and the money mindset. That’s so important when you start hitting new levels and you start doing actions that are sabotaging you.Unless you have a team around you or you have someone who’s pushing you, giving you feedback or being the soundboard, what ends up happening because it’s happened to one of our clients, they went from about 8000 a month to about 80000, they hovered around 60 to 80000 a month and you just can’t break through. It has nothing to do with advertising like you were saying. We have an idea what the funnel issue is. It’s primarily how we are approaching the business. I don’t know if you’ve seen anything like that before.
Nazim: Oh no, absolutely, man. This is great that you’ve brought it up. Given like credit card issues, I could write a ballad, a song about the credit card issues. You should spend from this card, use the points for Christmas gifts, this card allows us to charge only $500, those things you really have to take care of.
Nehal: For sure. For people who are in this situation where they have a webinar funnel or an application funnel and they might be in those initial stages with just getting started or just figuring out their advertising, what is it that you would recommend them like a final piece of advice, what they should focus on and how they should look at the growth of their business?
Nazim: Two things I would recommend: number one really get to know your customers, it’s super crucial because I’ve seen people who are not even that technical with Facebook ads get amazing results because their Facebook ads copy rocks. It’s so important. Dial your contacts, people you work with, create 6-7 simple questions and run your past customers through them. Offer a free lead magnet or just as a sign of goodwill or good service that you’re providing. Ask them to run through this questionnaire with you for 20 minutes. That’s number one and number 2 is really know your numbers. So easy, like man, I’m going to be honest, about 4-5 months ago I tried to run a campaign for myself,for my agency and I had zero plan, nothing, I didn’t prepare anything. I,literally, just ended up spending $600 and didn’t get anything significant. I’m still burning that I don’t have the Speedmaster, on ads so even for people like me or like you, I’m not bragging or anything, but who do ads for living, we get people amazing results but if we don’t plan it for ourselves,the success is not going to be achieved. Really know your numbers, it’s crucial.
Nehal: Perfect. Where can people reach out to you if they want to work with you or have any questions?
Nazim: Sure. My website name is leadgenblackbelt.com and you can also find me on Facebook. My name is Nazim Aghabayov. It’s written there.
Nehal: Perfect, man. I appreciate your time.
Nazim: Thank you, man, I really can’t thank you enough for this great opportunity to talk with you and hopefully we will have another one on one to talk about remarketing and tracking and . so many more topics. I really appreciate your time.
Nehal: I appreciate it, man.
Nazim: Awesome, thanks.